Outlier.... Re: Saturn in the Natal Chart  15-Feb-97

- According to Noel Tyl, a famous international astrologer who was schooled in Psychology at Harvard university, and my astrology teacher, anyone who has Saturn Retrograde or Saturn Square the Sun will have a father who is absent eithet emotionally or physically.

"When saturn is retrograde, (or square the Sun), there is a disruption somehow in what ideally is expected in the development process. The Rx introduces the sense of incompleteness. To one degree or another, the child is deprived of what it needs, of what society says it should have to fit in comfortably. There is a detour, a preoccupation, a delay, a pause built into development for some very hard lessons to be learned. Compensatory behaviors are originated and become routined.

Somehow strangely - here and in so much of astrology - there must be a reason for this. Some reason why we have to think through so much of who we are in order to become what we should be in spite of it all. Somehow it maks us stronger.

With saturn Rx in the natal chart, the astrologer knows with certainty that the following developmental dimension is almost always vital to the initial conditions upon which we all depend so greatly in the process of becoming; Ther is a legacy of inferiority feelings taken on in the early homelife through relationship with the father figure, usually the father, who was taken out of the picture early; or was there but absent or passive; or was so tyraninical...one or any combination of these....so as not to have given the guidance of authoritative love." From Synthesis & Counseling in Astrology by Noel Tyl

(Visit your favorite bookstore to check out the book, or buy it
online at Amazon.Com - Ed)

Outlier
email: "O"

Gatekeeper.... Re: Saturn in the Natal Chart  16-Feb-97

- Hello all! Well, as quick as the plan to go to Reno came up, it got cancelled. So, here I am back in AC instead of losing my shirt up north. So, to premise the following excerpt from the "Story of my life", I feel I should tell you exactly where my Saturn is. It's involved in a stellium in Pisces with my Sun and Chiron.

Sun @ 19deg41min. Saturn @ 19deg51min. and Chiron @ 21deg54min. And to add to the emphasis of this group, it happens to be at Midheaven, which is @ 21deg07 min. Basically, Chiron IS my Midheaven. Now, this stellium is involved in a t-square with an opposition to a tight Uranus/Pluto conjunction in Virgo, and square to Jupiter in Gemini in the 12th.

So...here goes...

My father was abused as a child by his violent, alcoholic father. At times he had to step between my Grandmother and Grandfather to stop my Grandfather from hitting her. I never knew my grandfather, but from what my Mother told me, he was just a very miserable, mean person. Anyway, my father developed trauma-induced epilepsy, from an incident where he was either pushed (or hit) down a flight of stairs by his father. The fact that this incident was the cause of the epilepsy, was hidden for quite some time. The reason we came to realize the truth will come up later in this post. Anyway, my father was a Sag, born on Thanksgiving day in 1940. (Nov 25) I think for any Sag. with such a restricting disease, life would be very difficult. Back then, we didn't really have the medication we do now, and it eventually got to the point where he just couldn't handle the seizures. One day, after attending a wedding, (which figures into the picture a little later) he got drunk, and took his own life. On Mother's Day, in 1970. I was 4.

The wedding, as far as my sister and I believe, added to his state of mind, seeing as he was separated from my mother at the time. We believe that the whole situation with the family just added fuel to the fire. He was actually seeing someone else at the time...a woman we used to call "Aunt". I didn't find out that she was his girlfriend until about 5 years ago. I didn't find out he killed himself until I was about 13. (I think...somewher around there).

He was 29 when it happened, and I was 4, as I mentioned earlier. Now I have a son in NY, and when I was 29, HE was 4, and the resemblances to history repeating itself were eerie. My whole family was very worried about me, and with good cause. I was in a depression that was getting worse by the day. I was drinking and getting my hands on anything that would take me out of this world...at least for a little while. Basically, I had no reason to live. My life was just black, period. To skip ahead a bit in this story, I won't go into details about how I got involved in Astrology...just know that I did, and it basically ended up saving my life. Ok, continuing on, I became obsessed with astrology. It's all I did for a couple of YEARS, day in day out. I lived, breathed, and ate astrology. I learned at an accelerated rate, and I know it's a gift, rather than a skill. In all practicality, I shouldn't know as much as I know. It kinda freaks me out sometimes.

I'm going to post this much now, and immediately continue with a new post. I just don't want to lose the information I've written here already for any reason.

(continued...)

- Now, where was I? Oh yeah, depression, darkness, decadence...

During the period of my obsession with the stars, and with doing the charts of anyone and everyone who came through my door, or Gate, if you will...I began to notice a reoccurring zodiacal degree in a LARGE number of charts I was doing. The people that were closest to me all had a sensitive point in their charts at 29deg Capricorn. Either the Sun, Moon, or Ascendant or Descendant. Now I'm not talking about 3 or 4 people. It was at least 15 or more! Everytime I'd see that degree in a new chart, I'd say to myself, there it is again...what the hell is it with that degree!?!?!? Well, I soon found out.

I had never calculated my Dad's chart, due to the fact that I didn't have the correct birth time. Don't ask me why I didn't calculate a solar chart...I just didn't. Basically, I didn't like doing charts without having the exact time. I hated not having the "exact" chart in front of me. Well, as far as his birthchart goes, I knew it wasn't going to be as accurate as I would have liked, (I can't do rectification) but I calculated it anyway. I studied it for awhile, with no huge breakthroughs, until one day I heard something from a professional astrologer that greatly intrigued me. He said that while the flesh dies, the chart lives on. After hearing that, I RAN to calculate my Dad's progressed chart. No matter what time he was born, I could still calculate the progressed Sun and be accurate within one degree. I calculated it, and almost hit the floor, or the ceiling for that matter. His progress sun (Or evolved Soul) at that time was...are you ready for this?...29 deg Capricorn!!!!! He had been with me the whole time!!!!!!!!...Trying to reach me through my friends...(who were with me during the whole depression period of my life) Needless to say, I just looked up and smiled, and was filled with one of the best feelings I've ever encountered! I had cared so little for myself. So little that I was doing myself great harm. This moment meant the world to me, as suddenly I felt as if I had met my father for the first time...25 years after his death.

Now putting my chart into this situation...My North Node is @ 29 deg Taurus, in the 11th house. (among other things...the friendship house). My karmic destiny or pathway has a lot to do with learning the true meaning of friendship. I feel my father was trying to teach me, "from the other side" what he had wanted to teach me previously, but obviously couldn't due to his death. And to add a different dimension on to this, the ruler of my Taurean North node, Venus, is in the eigth..."Benefit from the dead." Since this realization, it was extremely weird how many people came to me, whose charts I read, and who I later found out had a deceased relative that they had unresolved issues with. (quite a few suicides, too) I would write them a couple of pages of what I saw in their chart, and the eerie part about what I wrote, was that it always seemed to be the kind of advice that whoever had passed would have given them! Know what I mean? Sometimes it seemed like I was giving them a message from their deceased relative! It freaked me out for awhile, and I don't really obsess on it anymore, for fear of being referred to as the crazy astrologer who says he's a messenger for the dead!

I've got a lot of thoughts on death, and unresolved pain, but for now I'll let everyone digest what I've written so far, and give my fingers a rest. Oh yeah, for those who have heard that Jupiter in the 12th is an Angel...you'd better believe it is! (And what sign does Jupiter Rule? Sagittarius...If you recall, my father was a Sag. Probably didn't expect that kind of happy ending did you?!?!?

Gatekeeper
email: [email protected]

(follow-up; same author; in response to another post)

- Cancer-Man, You mentioned building the father inside you. That's one of the things I learned the past year. You see, the other dimension to my story was that I had a step-father who I absolutely hated. (Not at first, but after we lived together for awhile. I won't get into the details about it, but basically he was an extremely depressing person to be around. (Especially for an ultra sensitive, water-based individual like myself.) His attitude was "Life sucks and that's all there is to it. You work, bust your ass, be miserable, and hate life...end of story." He had Moon conjunct Saturn. He was so "heavy" on me and just resented me for living, or at least that's how I took it. He just "had it in for me" from day one, which is pretty traumatic for a six year old! Anyway, I actually understood him a little better once I found out he had Saturn on his Moon, but that still didn't erase the deep angry feelings I held towards him. It's very hard for a Scorpio Moon to forgive. Well, to get to the point I was going to make without writing my whole life down here...I wanted to share another facet to my Saturn influence. I was SO rebellious against my step father, (and trust me this was defense, not offense)...that I actually rebelled against my OWN Saturn! That voice in your head telling you right from wrong, and telling you what you ought to do, and what not to do...That's Saturn, and all my life, I've always been "conciously deaf" to that voice. I would hear it, and purposely go the other way, because I associated that voice with my stepfather's overbearing, commanding, and controlling Scorpionic voice, that was always there to halt any happiness in it's tracks. I was SO against everything he stood for that I was blinded by rage. In rebelling so strongly against him, I went overboard and rebelled against my own Saturn. Get my meaning? Two Saturns, but a rage big enough to cover them both. I think a third Saturn, my birth father, intervened to show me what I was doing to myself. And to end the point, I just recently began to start building with my own Saturn, rather than disregarding it, and you know what? I'm starting to have things go my way, because I'm working WITH the big guy instead of against him. There's one thing I learned through all of this...Saturn will always win, and is always right, so listen! He really knows!! Ever read "The Way of the Wizard" by Deepak Chopra? The Wizard is none other than Saturn himself. Cancer-Man...sounds like we've had some similar life circumstances to deal with. Same but different, huh?

Gatekeeper
email: [email protected]